DDR-RAM Editor's Desk Reviews System

Deceptive packaging, bottom of the barrel or stroke of genius? – Patriot Viper Venom DDR5-6400 CL32 2x 16 GB kit with SK Hynix 8 Gbit “H-Die” ICs in test with teardown and overclocking

SPD information and special properties of the ICs

In the SPD we find all the important information about the RAM modules that the CPU and mainboard also need for stable joint operation. It is important to understand that the SPD is only an EEPROM memory chip and the information it contains is only as good as the manufacturer has programmed it to be.

First of all, the capacity of the modules is stored here, together with the nominal clock rate of 3200 MHz (DDR5-6400) and the manufacturer Patriot Memory (PDP Systems). The product number is only referred to as 6400 Series, the exact part number is missing. At least the serial number and production week are given, but this should only serve as a hint for end customers to identify the modules beyond doubt via software.

Now we come to the really exciting part: The ICs are listed as manufacturer SK Hynix, Stepping H-Die (4.8) and Density 8192 Mb. In summary, SK Hynix 8 Gbit H-Die. But caution is advised here, as Patriot itself has stored this information and according to the public documents from SK Hynix there is no 8 Gbit H-Die. Is it an internal designation or has Patriot simply used some letter? This question remains unanswered.

But how is it possible that these ICs appear in 2025 at all, when 16 Gbit was the entry-level capacity at the beginning of the DDR5 era a few years ago? This can be explained by the following detail: Number of Bank Groups 8 is standard for DDR5 x8 ICs, but Banks per Group 2 is unusual – normally there are 4.

It is therefore obvious that these are rejects, i.e. ICs in which not all banks function correctly for all bank groups. During the first tests after production, these are then rejected immediately. However, instead of disposing of them, the defective memory cell units are deactivated and the ICs are recycled as 8 Gbit capacity. This is also familiar from CPUs: if cores or cache areas do not function or clock correctly after the production of a top-end CPU, these areas are deactivated. An i9 becomes an i7, a Ryzen 9 becomes a Ryzen 7 (to put it simply).

So these 8 Gbit H-die ICs are probably actually 16 Gbit A-die ICs that had some kind of production defect. Accordingly, the clock and timing characteristics are likely to be very similar, but with half the capacity. In order to still be able to offer a 16 GB module or 32 GB kit, ICs are simply installed in 2 ranks per module on both sides by Patriot. You could say that we actually have 2 classic 32 GB dual-rank DDR5 modules here, where half of the banks within the bank groups have been deactivated.

Now the question naturally arises whether halving the banks per bank group has an impact on performance. Practically speaking, the bank groups are the “work units” that are addressed by the RAM controller of the CPU with the activate timings. That was also a big argument from DDR5 to DDR4, that the bank groups were doubled from 4 to 8 and thus better multitasking was made possible, so to speak. However, if the banks per bank group are halved again, the same amount of work has to be distributed across more bank groups. Each time a bank group is addressed, it must first be activated. Now it depends on the respective IC how quickly a bank group can be activated on the one hand, and on the other hand how quickly the operations within the bank group are handled by the banks. Expressed in timings: tRRD(_s/_l) against tCCD(_s/_l)

Of course, it also depends on the IMC of the CPU and to what extent it can handle the atypically few banks per bank group or how well it has been optimized for this. In theory, there are therefore too many variables to be able to derive the performance impact of our ICs’ special feature beyond doubt. But fortunately there is reality and benchmarks.

 

The other ICs on the board are supposedly both from IDT (Renesas). The PMIC is of type PMIC5100 and supports VDD/VDDQ values > 1.435 V. The SPD is a type SPD5118, which also integrates the temperature sensor of the modules.

Finally, the XMP profiles should of course be mentioned. Patriot supplies 3 of these:

  • Profile 1: DDR5-6400, tCL 32, tRCD 40, tRP 40, tRAS 84, tRC 117, tRFC 940, tRFC2 510, tRFCsb 415, tWR 96 at 1.4 V VDD/VDDQ
  • Profile 2: DDR5-6200, tCL 40, tRCD 40, tRP 40, tRAS 76, tRC 117, tRFC 916, tRFC2 496, tRFCsb 403, tWR 94 at 1.35 V VDD/VDDQ
  • Profile 3: DDR5-6000, tCL 30, tRCD 40, tRP 40, tRAS 76, tRC 117, tRFC 884, tRFC2 480, tRFCsb 390, tWR 90 at 1.35 V VDD/VDDQ

Patriot is therefore fully exploiting the memory limits of the DDR5 SPD for Intel XMP 3.0, although the profiles are quite similar. Intel CPUs actually benefit from significantly higher clock rates, which is why such low XMP profiles are unusual, but we are also looking at a dual-rank kit here. Since more ranks are known to have a negative effect on the clock potential, 6400 Mbps at the maximum is quite reasonable.

The profiles are also very well suited to AM5 CPUs, as these fully utilize the 1:1 mode in this area. As always, you just have to make sure that the UCLK DIV1 MODE is manually set to UCLK = MEMCLK for profiles above 6000 Mbps in order to prevent the auto value UCLK = MEMCLK / 2 and the associated loss of performance.

 

Kommentar

Lade neue Kommentare

e
eastcoast_pete

Urgestein

3,083 Kommentare 2,046 Likes

In dem Zusammenhang auch interessant, daß sich Micron laut deren Ankündigung von gestern/heute komplett aus dem Geschäft mit individuellen Endkunden zurückziehen will, und deshalb scheinbar auch Crucial als Marke aufgibt. Stattdessen geht es um KI - All AI all the time.
@skullbringer : Xaver, danke für die Informationen! Und statt A- und B-Dies gibt's dann demnächst wohl bald nur noch Z-Dies - die von ganz unten in der Bin 😜.

Antwort 5 Likes

c
cunhell

Urgestein

800 Kommentare 857 Likes

Das Vorgehen hier erinnert mich an die Zeit, als man Marken-RAM kaum bekommen hat und wenn man ihn verlangt hat, weil man die teueren Teile unbedingt haben wollte, schon fast mit Unverständnis angesehen wurde.
Standard waren da oftmals die Noname-Riegel mit unklarer Bestückung.
Das scheint jetzt auch zum Teil wieder aufzutauchen. Resterampe at its best. Und dann wundert man sich, warum es nicht klappt, wenn man zwei angeblich baugleiche RAM-Kits verbaut und es nicht stabil läuft.

Und mit dem Engpass an Speicher wird es mMn noch mehr zunehmen. Zum Nachteil der User.

Aber man kann ja dann die AI fragen, warum es nicht klappt. ;)

Cunhell

Antwort 6 Likes

LurkingInShadows

Urgestein

1,531 Kommentare 655 Likes

Die 1,4V auf AM5? Hoffentlich nicht mit einem Ryzen 7800X3D o.ä.

Antwort Gefällt mir

skullbringer

Veteran

356 Kommentare 413 Likes
RedF

Urgestein

6,212 Kommentare 4,195 Likes

Habe auch so ein 16GB DR Kit von Klevv.

Antwort 4 Likes

e
eastcoast_pete

Urgestein

3,083 Kommentare 2,046 Likes

Diese Marke (Klevv) scheint momentan gerade bei per-Spezifikationen schnellerem RAM in den Markt zu drücken; übrigens auch in den USA. Welche RAM Dies verbauen die denn so? Gibt's dazu Informationen?

Antwort Gefällt mir

RedF

Urgestein

6,212 Kommentare 4,195 Likes

Das ist die Eigenmarke von Hynix, die verbauen nur eigene Chips.

Antwort 5 Likes

Gurdi

Urgestein

2,276 Kommentare 1,938 Likes

Spannender Artikel Xaver. Danke für das Aufgreifen des Themas und die freundliche Nennung.

Antwort 4 Likes

ApolloX

Urgestein

1,987 Kommentare 1,324 Likes

Ich denke, das hat du falsch verstanden, die 1,4V oder auch 1,7V haben mit der CPU nichts zu tun, sondern braten den RAM.

Geil Xaver, 1,7V, das ist OC nach meinem Geschmack. Einfach Mal schauen, was geht. Schöne Pionierarbeit.

Antwort 2 Likes

Gurdi

Urgestein

2,276 Kommentare 1,938 Likes

Der PMIC kann aber doch nur 1,43V auf dem Kit???

Antwort Gefällt mir

skullbringer

Veteran

356 Kommentare 413 Likes

Der PMIC auf meinem Kit ist unlocked. Zwar ist der tatsächlich verbaute PMIC ein anderer als im SPD aufgelistet, aber > 1,435 V kann er, wie beim Teardown erklärt.

Würde mich aber nicht wundern, wenn bei deinem Kit wieder ein anderer PMIC verbaut ist. Patriot nimmt da wohl einfach was gerade vom LKW fällt.

Antwort 3 Likes

skullbringer

Veteran

356 Kommentare 413 Likes

wie heißen die ICs bei dir im SPD / HWinfo System Info? oder ist das Feld einfach leer?

wäre ja sehr interessant, wie die Hynix-Hausmarke die ICs bezeichnet 👀

View image at the forums

Antwort 1 Like

RedF

Urgestein

6,212 Kommentare 4,195 Likes

View image at the forums

Antwort 3 Likes

RedF

Urgestein

6,212 Kommentare 4,195 Likes

Ich habe auch ein 48GB Kit von Patriot mit H-Die 4.8.
Bisher ist mir dort nur die RFC von min 165ns aufgefallen.

Antwort 2 Likes

skullbringer

Veteran

356 Kommentare 413 Likes

also ein Modul hat 24 GB, aber ist Dual-Rank? Dann wären das die angedeuteten SK Hynix 24 Gbit M-Die ICs, recyclet als 12 Gbit "H-Die".

Antwort Gefällt mir

Gurdi

Urgestein

2,276 Kommentare 1,938 Likes
mgutt

Mitglied

23 Kommentare 12 Likes

Zum Glück braucht man keinen Computer, um eine KI nutzen zu können 🤔

Antwort 3 Likes

RedF

Urgestein

6,212 Kommentare 4,195 Likes
Dragokar

Mitglied

65 Kommentare 44 Likes

Danke für den Test.

Antwort 1 Like

Danke für die Spende



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Xaver Amberger (skullbringer)

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